TL;DR

By now, everyone has probably seen this (or a similar version) graph:

So, let’s not dwell on it, shall we? It was nice (great even), when it lasted.

Nowadays, it’s better to work on your Github profile or actually building/publishing.

That’s it, going back to my terminal to see if Clawdbot/Moltbot/OpenBot needs my attention, ciao 👋

Yes, our (programming) world is changing, and I hope you’re keeping up…

!TL;DR

Back in 2018, my friend Shawn Milochik and I discussed on our DevThink podcast if it’s still worth it to build a portfolio on StackOverflow. It was our 1st episode.

Then, I thought that building the profile there was still valuable, especially if you wanted to change jobs, but I also agreed that having an active Github account is also important (maybe even more so) as you can show people what you can do with the code, and ‘code does not lie’.

Moreso, if you didn’t care about the vanity points you may want to do it because of your own satisfaction of helping people.

Because it took a lot of effort to actually get to a certain number of reputation points on StackOverflow, I would argue that one developed a decent set of skills (writing, explaining, thinking).

So, IMHO, it was totally worth it. And wonder if a similar network will ever arise in our agent-first world.

Here’s the recording, and below is the transcript in case anyone is interested.

Fun thought: folks listening this in 10y from now may be like: lol, they still actually wrote code back then 🙂.

Nikola

This is a question I get asked a lot, mainly because I have a profile with more than 15k rep:

Shawn

I have a profile on StackOverflow, and created it just because I wanted to post a question or upvote someone’s answer one time or another, but I have a pretty low ranking and I’ve never sought out higher one.

I have no idea why anyone would want to cultivate a high ranking unless it was for the purpose of getting a job. But then again, it doesn’t seem to compare to your Github profile.

Nikola

I created mine in 2010, and I was only asking questions for a very very long time. However, it turned out that those questions were very good because I got a lot of upvotes on them. The first time I started answering questions was when I had to create a mobile version of some site and I was using jQuery Mobile and found a lot of questions to which I knew the answer because I read some book about it, and had experience with it. At that time I had around 300 points, and after I started answering I quickly got to 2K.

Flash forward today, I am approaching the 10 K, and what I have to say about that is that my experience with it is very good, because I got admited to one freelance site without any interviews, just by providing my StackOverflow profile link.

I think it’s valuable if you want to change jobs, but I also agree that having an active Github account is also important (maybe even more so) as you can show people what you can do with the code, and ‘code does not lie’.

Shawn

I’ve hired and interviewed quite a bit since about 2010, and I don’t remember ever asking about or being presented with an applicant’s StackOverflow account but definitely have asked for or been presented with their Github account in the resume.

Nikola

The dean of our university used to joke that our graduates find a job in maximum three days depending on when the weekend falls. To extrapolate on that one, having a very good StackOverflow profile makes you very desirable. When you have a certain amount of reputation points (reps) you get recruiter emails (if you allow the option in StackOverflow settings).

I met people who don’t care about the points. Instead, they only do it because of their own satisfaction of helping people.

Shawn

When I was doing Django pretty heavily from 2009-2012, I was on the Django users mailing list every day. I’ve seen plenty people ask questions where it was obvious that they were lazy and they didn’t take the time to figure out how to ask the question so that they could be helped.

I had a habit of making sure I can explain the question pretty clearly, and trying to find the answer myself first. What happened was almost all the time I was able to answer my own questions and almost never ask a question.

I found that I was answering a lot of questions for a few years and there were multiple times that years later when one of the developers on my team would come to me and say:

"Hey I had this problem and I did a Google search and I found the answer, and you wrote it"

So, you can definitely contribute in a way that doesn’t acrew any points or reputation.

To touch on the Github mention, I would look at the actual code in the Github profile and not just the number of stars.

Nikola

Since I know that it takes a lot of effort to actually get to a certain number of reputation points on StackOverflow, I would argue that this person is very good because I myself know that it’s not an easy task to do.

Newbies complain too much

New members don’t seem to like StackOverflow (and there’s even a term SO police) because most of their questions go along the lines of: "help me connect to the database".

I don’t have respect for those kind of people because they didn’t read the rules, or the FAQ.

If you want me to help you, then at least put in some effort. Usual answers to these kind of questions are: ‘What have you tried?’. And then they wouldn’t have anything to show for it.

Usually those people go away, and honestly you don’t want to have them in the community. I may be too harsh, but if you want me to give you my time for free, then please show that you really took some effort and did some researching. If you’re a beginner there is probably 99% chance that there already is same/similar question because you’re not as advanced so you don’t have a specific question that you need a professional to answer you.

So, is it good of an investment to do that nowadays?

Maybe not in Java, maybe not in PHP, or any of those languages that have been with us for a long time. But, it may be a very good idea to do it with a certain new technology because that will help you to place yourself as a master in the field.

If people search for something in a certain technology or language and your name constantly keeps popping up, and if they have a company that’s searching for some specific answers and you already answered them for free on ten questions, if they really need some additional help they’ll certainly reach out to you.

Beware of the help vampires

Shawn

It’s definitely good to have reputation, but at the same time you want to avoid what we used to call a ‘help vampire’. That’s someone who after they ask a question, and you give them an answer will immediately come back with the next problem. They’re basically having you do their homework and keep wasting your time. The whole point of helping someone is you want to say:

Oh, you’re a smart person, you’re trying and you got stuck because you don’t know what you’re doing as you’re new to this. That’s totally reasonable, so let me help you get over this little hurdle, so you can see the other side and then you can have smooth sailing from there on.

Nikola

This can happen on StackOverflow as well, but when someone keeps asking the followup questions in the comments you just ask them to make a new question.

They rarely do that, either because of laziness or frustration. I think that these kind of people came to this industry for the wrong reasons because if you don’t see real true pure joy in finding out things for yourself then you won’t last long here. I remember when I was starting out, that I couldn’t figure out something for like a week and then, when I finally got it, it was the best feeling ever! It’s one of the things that gets me going in this field.

Shawn

I agree that it’s how it should be. There’s a very famous person on the internet called Eric S. Raymond (wrote the art of unix programming) who wrote this post called how to ask questions the smart way. I think there’s really good stuff there like:

• before you ask try to find an answer by searching the archives
• try to find an answer by doing a web search
• try to find an answer by reading the manual
• read the FAQ
• experiment with it yourself to try to figure it out

The questions like "how do I connect to a database in language X" very clearly show that they didn’t do any of those things

What we do is a craft, and not just something that anyone can do 9-5 and then go home and sit on the couch and watch TV and drink beer without it being a part of their life.

Nikola

If you clock in the 8 hours and you can’t wait to come home and do something else then honestly I would really question if this is something that you’re put on this Earth to do.

Shawn

I read this blog post about a kid from Nigeria who wanted to become a programmer but couldn’t afford a laptop, so he started with his Nokia phone and in the end ended in an MIT backed startup.

Then you contrast that with someone who has a computer, and an internet connection that works perfectly fine and a full keyboard and then they can’t even be bothered to figure out the first thing about what they’re trying to do!?

Talent is overrated

Nikola

I agree and am going to pull a parallel here with a book that I’m currently reading called How to teach your baby to read. I’m not going to go into the details of why and how, but the thing is that they were actually working with brain damaged children and what they were able to do with them is that they read on a level of a normal child. Now, if we all would be willing to work harder, I’m wondering how much more would we advance. We’re not using our potential and that’s sad.

Shawn

Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Outliers, interviewed some violin teachers who said that if you compare someone with a lot of talent to someone who’s not as talented but is putting in more practice hours, they will be way better in five years. It doesn’t matter what you start with as much as how much you practice. Of course, practice is not just repetition, it’s also doing something while intentionally paying attention to what you’re doing and noticing the outcome and making adjustments and so on. That’s known as deliberate practice.

Nikola

We’ve derailed this podcast from StackOverflow, but I want to say that I have on my website three basic quotes that I love and one of them is:

hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard

Conclusion

Nikola

Definitely create a StackOverflow account. Before you ask any questions please read the FAQ, and please try to be as thorough as possible. Many times you will find out that by asking a question in the concise way you will actually find out the answer yourself. Pro tip: don’t try get points in a very established language, try to do it in some new language/areas/framework.

Shawn

Do it, as it can’t hurt. If you like to help people anyway, you might as well get a little credit for it. It can also be addictive, and a good way to pass the time. If you’re going to be online watching YouTube videos and clicking funny memes and things like that and wasting your time and not being productive, you might as well spend that time on StackOverflow helping others because it feels really good and on top of that if you’ve ever done it you learn so much by teaching and helping others.

Our profession is so huge and wide that even if you’re an expert in a language you use every day, you don’t use every single aspect of it based on the industry you work in, or you know other factors so sometimes someone asks a little question that’s seems easy and you’ll learn a little bit better about that you learn about the tools you use everyday so definitely go for it.